195 pointsby speckxMar 19, 2026

27 Comments

pgporadaMar 19, 2026
Whoop whoop
schmeichelMar 19, 2026
Where my Juggalos at??
NickC25Mar 19, 2026
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, sitting behind the resolute desk. That person wears more makeup than some of the performers on RuPaul's Drag Race.
nathan_comptonMar 19, 2026
Don't sully the good name of Juggalos this way.
garciansmithMar 19, 2026
"By the time Presidents Jay and Dope were elected, western civilization had officially fucked itself over forever, and I think everyone knew it." https://homestuck.com/006765
1-moreMar 19, 2026
Detroit rap rock neatly broke along the prevailing political tendencies in the US

1. Kid Rock is the MAGA candidate. This makes sense: he was the scion the owner of many car dealerships and grew up in a house with an apple orchard and a horse stable but claims to be salt of the earth focused on kitchen table issues and also endless moneyed personal delight. Great article on the 2023 NADA convention, btw: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/05/rich-republicans...

2. Juggalos went lumpenprole left. Bad optics, problematic past statements, ultimately proudly unsophisticatedly populist

3. Eminem made "awfully hot coffee pot" and Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann went apeshit for it. MSNBC lib.

soopypoosMar 19, 2026
I wonder if I'm more likely to get denied entry wearing juggalo face or classic camo paint
QuantumNomad_Mar 19, 2026
Depends. Are you attending an ICP concert, or a military reenactment convention, or something else entirely?
zdp7Mar 19, 2026
You would want to test the camo. I suspect there is more than just changing ones appearance. I believe I've seen a story talking about not needing to see the entire face. You can still id people wearing neck gaiters and other face coverings if you can make out the facial contour. I think you needed about a third of the face uncovered. https://hyperverge.co/blog/masked-face-recognition/

Edit found a link pretty fast.

hallway_monitorMar 19, 2026
Pretty sure gait analysis is as good as facial recognition. Maybe wearing shoes with weird heights would confuse it
bigfishrunningMar 19, 2026
Miracles all around us
Forgeties79Mar 19, 2026
You could throw on the SNL skit or the real video and frankly I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference
1-moreMar 19, 2026
Here's the thing about "fucking magnets; how do they work?" How do magnets work? No less a science communicator than Richard Feynman—he of the rubber sheet gravity spacetime analogy—had no analogy to communicate why ferromagnetism creates attraction and repulsion. Here's his incredibly shaggy dog non-answer to the question about how magnets work wherein he says that there are no pat answers to "why" questions. He gets to the money line: "I cannot explain that attraction in terms of anything else that's familiar to you" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO0r930Sn_8

So I will defend that line in the song. I will only accept answers from people who can explain why ferromagnetism works to me assuming I know how electromagnets create magnetic fields.

mikrlMar 19, 2026
And I don’t wanna talk to a scientist

Y’all MFs unable to address the replication crisis, and getting me pissed

refulgentisMar 19, 2026
Clickbait, it’s a couple tweets microwaved and the 3rd paragraph is “well, except for modern facial recognition”
everdriveMar 19, 2026
This feels like the real-life equivalent of that old Family Guy joke where Peter is with a squad of dudes in Vietnam but is dressed like a clown. He says something to the effect of "You guys are stupid. They're going to be looking for army guys." Outside of the absurdity of the situation, the joke is that the guy dressed as a clown obviously stands out even more.

Juggalo makeup might block some facial recognition tech, but you also paint a huge target on yourself.

teddyhMar 19, 2026
There’s an xkcd: <https://www.xkcd.com/1105/>
jpsouthMar 19, 2026
I genuinely believe there's an xkcd for everything. I was only reading about the creator, Randall Munroe a few days ago and he's clearly very talented.
ferMar 19, 2026
>covering features impacts accuracy of feature-based classifiers

More new at 9. Plus it's from 2019.

FindecanorMar 19, 2026
(2019) ... but sadly increasingly relevant.
ChrisMarshallNYMar 19, 2026
I guess LiveNation won't be running ICP concerts, then...
world2vecMar 19, 2026
They'll just charge an additional makeup fee...
echelon_muskMar 19, 2026
Shamelessly hijacking this story to recommend The Private Eye digital comic [0]. Set in a future where everyone has normalised the wearing of masks in public to preserve their anonymity. The protagonist refuses to get a driving license because he wouldn't want a photo of himself in a database.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Private_Eye

GinsengJarMar 19, 2026
You got any other comics to recommend in this style/genre? Cyberpunk, dystopia, etc
autoexecMar 19, 2026
Transmetropolitan was pretty good.
gopher_spaceMar 19, 2026
The subtext of that comic felt a bit like “what if Hunter Thompson was mostly sober?”
xoxxalaMar 19, 2026
I cannot recommend Transmetropolitan enough. It should be required reading.
autoexecMar 19, 2026
Thanks for that! Vaughan is great. It's funny that it's a digital release considering the topic. That small sense of unease I feel each time I feed my personal and credit card data into yet another website should only enhance the experience.
embedding-shapeMar 19, 2026
Slightly bad example as it seems the company did "one of the first DRM-free, pay what you want comics", going to the website you can enter 0 and download without giving any other details (besides everything else you leak on the web): http://panelsyndicate.com/comics/tpeye
dayvidMar 19, 2026
Ever since Covid, people are obscuring their faces in public more often. I especially see gig workers wearing balaclavas. Partially for sun and wind protection, but potentially for anonymity
burningChromeMar 19, 2026
I would also add the Netflix movie "Anon" which came out in 2018:

In the near future, humanity lives in a technologically advanced, dystopian society. The government requires that everyone receive an ocular implant that records everything they see. The implant provides an augmented-reality head-up display to the user with information about anyone and anything they may see, as well as recording the user's view. Investigations into crimes amount to detectives reviewing video and assessing whether an alleged perpetrator is innocent or guilty.

Sal Friedland, a detective with the metropolitan police force, crosses paths with a young woman who appears to trigger a glitch in his ocular implant, as no data about her is retrieved. When he reviews his own record of that day, he finds that every single frame of her has been mysteriously deleted. At work, Sal is handed several homicide cases where the victims' own visual records of their deaths are replaced with the killer's point of view, thus hiding the killer's identity. At another murder scene, Sal chases the apparent killer only to nearly be killed when they hack his implant and change what he sees in real time.

themafiaMar 19, 2026
> refuses to get a driving license because he wouldn't want a photo of himself in a database.

I refuse to get a "RealID" for nearly the same reasons.

lucasayMar 19, 2026
I’m more curious about how robust this is against modern systems. A lot of newer facial recognition models are trained on occlusions, masks, and heavy makeup — so this might be less effective than people assume.
saalweachterMar 19, 2026
It's not actually an oversight or training failure; as one of the six societies which secretly rule the world, the Juggalos simply demand to be exempt from facial recognition.
atomicnumber3Mar 19, 2026
Juggalos, bronies, 9th doctor fans, billionaires, royals (baseball team), and royals (landed nobility)?
saalweachterMar 19, 2026
In _Inside Job_, it was Juggalos, the Illuminati, the Catholic Church, Cognito Inc [the main feature of the show, kind of the Deep State], the Atlanteans, and the Reptoids.
stackghostMar 19, 2026
It's likely that e.g. wifi-based gait analysis can be deployed to defeat this.

The only saving grace is you can't run that against video surveillance footage.

fc417fc802Mar 19, 2026
But you can run video-based gait analysis against video surveillance footage. You can also index physical fingerprints other than the face.

Maybe I should start wearing a hazmat suit with an opaque faceplate whenever I leave the house.

amanaplanacanalMar 19, 2026
I'm wondering how well the Zenni optical ID guard coatings actually work.
mcvMar 19, 2026
Not surprising at all. It's a form of dazzle camouflage that has previously been shown to confuse facial recognition[0]. It's probably possible to design it to be more effective yet less intrusive than juggalo makeup.

I would have actually expected it to be more popular by now.

[0] https://adam.harvey.studio/cvdazzle/

yacinMar 19, 2026
maybe it's just from being covered in Faygo?
alexjplantMar 19, 2026
Faygo is unironically delicious. They used to sell them for $1 a pop (Midwestern pun intended) on the East Coast in gas stations. Diet varieties of Orange, Moon Mist, and Root Beer were personal favorites.

No idea whether this is still the case as I haven't been in a Sheetz in years.

bityardMar 19, 2026
Most grocery stores still sell Faygo in Michigan. But you rarely see more than the most popular 3 or so (boring) flavors. I remember there being at least a half-dozen different Faygo flavors at every kid's birthday party in the 80's.
HardwareLustMar 19, 2026
Sheetz quit carrying Faygo long ago, at least in and around Philly.
hackitup7Mar 19, 2026
I'll make sure to wear my Juggalo makeup the next time I visit China to avoid their face scanning technology. That'll surely help me blend into the background.
LarrikinMar 19, 2026
In 2018 it was already common knowledge that gait analysis was more accurate than facial recognition at the time. This would have been defeatable then.
beepbooptheoryMar 19, 2026
How are everyone's gaits being collected? Is there gait databases at the NSA? Not being skeptical! Honestly very interesting.
nemomarxMar 19, 2026
You could compare gaits between footage of a crime and footage of you in another public place, probably?

I don't think I've heard of it being used though.

a2techMar 19, 2026
We only have discussions of the Chinese rolling out gait tracking widely. Basically you use existing facial databases to match ids to people in observed areas and capture their gait as they pass observed areas. Then it goes into the database. Using partial matching (non ideal observation of gait or face) allows for greater positive matching in non-ideal circumstances.
angiolilloMar 19, 2026
DARPA projects from more than a decade ago (VSAM/WAMI for arial platforms like Gorgon Stare) used arial imagery to capture ground shadows for gait tracking purposes.

From chatting with some of the researchers many years ago my understanding is that it usually wasn't accurate enough for unique identification and the gait shadow was dependent on shoe type and clothing, so a persistent gait shadow database wouldn't have been useful. But it could be correlated with ground-based surveillance for identification, for example person A and B were identified on a ground-based security camera entering a building, then gait tracking could be used to monitor where they went after they left the building even if they avoided ground-based security cameras after that point.

LammyMar 19, 2026
Most people carry an accelerometer-equipped smartphone around in their pocket or bag, and there is already precedent for that data being collected and transmitted without consent: https://research.google/blog/android-earthquake-alerts-a-glo...
water-data-dudeMar 19, 2026
Gait recognition is also easier to defeat. All you need is to put something like a few pebbles or coins in one of your shoes
giancarlostoroMar 19, 2026
This video provides other suggestions gets good at around 1:15 ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVSOHGGgKD4

glensteinMar 19, 2026
I think dazzle camouflage is best understood as having limited scope of application as pertains to face recognition. It shouldn't be regarded as failing within its intended scope on account of gait analysis. Everyone knows you have to learn the juggalo dance moves to go along with the face paint.
throwawaypathMar 19, 2026
Did I accidentally sleep in a time machine? Front page of HN right now has articles on Juggalos and Afroman.
oceanskyMar 19, 2026
The early 2000s are back baby
jp191919Mar 19, 2026
Let's not bring back Windows ME
marcosdumayMar 19, 2026
Compared to 11?
bacchusracineMar 19, 2026
I'm thinking...give me a minute....
marcosdumayMar 19, 2026
Take your time. It's updating...
oceanskyMar 19, 2026
Well, the local file search is much better on ME at least.
defectiveMar 19, 2026
Hilary Duff just released a new album too.
iguana_shineMar 19, 2026
The Millennials are getting nostalgic
butlikeMar 19, 2026
It's so funny when a member of the younger generation comments. Younger generations are always trying to kill off the older generations. Both physically and metaphorically, too!

It makes sense in a way. If you were actually successful in doing that, you could finally make the world in your image instead of having to work around all those pesky "legacy" viewpoints that hold back the True Progress of the Younger Generation. But alas, the older generation still exists, because the younger can't do it.

But do continue with the passive aggressive comments. While it keeps me spry, you still get paid entry-level wages when you should be kings.

dlev_pikaMar 19, 2026
As a xennial I wish we had successfully “killed” the boomers, but instead we have 3 septuagenarians blowing shit up all over the world

We failed so hard

frereubuMar 19, 2026
Yeah, great anticipation for the undoubtedly forward-looking xennial Mojtaba Khamenei in Iran.
mystralineMar 19, 2026
Gotta really "love" the fact that extremist Islamic country treats a whole host of people horribly (women, gays, non-muslims).

But if you say anything about it, you're an islamophobe.

Same way if you criticize Israel's actions, youre lambasted as a jew-hater. But at least now thats starting to change.

krappMar 19, 2026
Because people in the former group don't criticize those countries, they criticize Islam, and tend to categorize all Muslims (specifically Muslim immigrants) as ontologically evil.

Meanwhile people in the latter group tend to be very specific that their criticism is of a state and its policies, rather than the religion of Judaism or Jews in general, even though their efforts tend to fall on deaf ears.

mystralineMar 19, 2026
Indeed, it both feels like the same type of pro-theocratic propaganda. Its a way to disingenuously claim "you hate everyone of our group", when thats demonstrably not true. You likely hate the actions a country masquerading as the group inflicts against others.

My disdain is for all theocratic countries. I dont particularly care for any religion that takes over a government.

And I do include the USA in that, as theocratic fundamentalist christanity. Ive done so since changing the pledge of allegience and adding "in god we trust" on the currency.

butlikeMar 19, 2026
We hate the demagogue for being a demagogue and their followers for being stupid.
krswMar 19, 2026
Gotta really "love" the fact that bigots and xenophobes treat a whole host of religions and regions horribly.

To them Islamic or Arab is monoculture.

Same way all countries in the Mid East are all barbaric and savage. But at least now thats starting to change.

butlikeMar 19, 2026
Gotta really "love" the fact that "bigots and xenophobes" is its own overly-broad brush
burningChromeMar 19, 2026
What would you change?
masfuerteMar 19, 2026
Look on the bright side. In three months Trump won't be a septuagenarian any more.
cucumber3732842Mar 19, 2026
They're getting old, and with that enough of them are getting rich. And that makes them worth pandering to so they can be parted from their money. See for example all the commercials that feature 90s crap and political talking points intended to appeal to them.
stronglikedanMar 19, 2026
On a side note, sleep is indistinguishable from time travel.
gethwhunter34Mar 19, 2026
counterpoint: this assumes everyone has the same constraints. not always true
dsiegel2275Mar 19, 2026
Also blocks magnets.
throwway120385Mar 19, 2026
The only way to meaningfully defeat surveillance technology is to make a constitutional amendment that limits its use privately and publicly. We keep fighting it technologically which is an arms race. A cultural solution is the only path forward that will see meaningful success.
mc32Mar 19, 2026
I don’t think it will happen for at least a couple of reasons. The “deep state” in the US and elsewhere will not allow it and would find workarounds ala five eyes. And two, the right wants to spy on the left and the left wants to spy on the right. Only a small sliver of libertarians are strongly against spying “the domestic baddies.” So there is no chance.
gleennMar 19, 2026
The only reason the deep state or anyone has any power is because most people don't care. If people cared, we could change. Modern politics is all about distracting everyone with some crazy as often as possible to keep shifting attention and basically disabling any progress.
AvicebronMar 19, 2026
There's some of that, there is also metric tons of money being used to keep the corporate status quo..
sylosMar 19, 2026
the deepstate has power because they will literally kill you if you don't and that's not the worst option. The deepstate will honeytrap, hack, blackmail, or otherwise destroy your life to get what "it" wants. People caring more isn't going to do anything if the Congressman doesn't want it known that he likes easy access to money and other illegal things.
dec0dedab0deMar 19, 2026
The only reason the deep state or anyone has any power is because most people don't care.

I think bribery, blackmail, and extortion have a bit to do with it to.

coldteaMar 19, 2026
>The only reason the deep state or anyone has any power is because most people don't care. If people cared, we could change.

Yes, but that's just restating the problem.

zdp7Mar 19, 2026
As long as it is accessible and useful, it will be used. Organized crime is around despite it being illegal. Considering how lucrative tracking people is, people will do it illegally. Even corporations as long as penalties aren't significant enough. We really need a three strikes law for corporations. Three egregious intentional violations and corp, is dissolved all assets going to support the needy.
b00ty4breakfastMar 19, 2026
"things should be legal because some people will do it anyways" is not a very compelling argument. I'm sure I don't need to explain to you why extrapolating this line of though to, for example, murder is silly and not worth taking serious.
hallway_monitorMar 19, 2026
Love the last bit. Lack of accountability for corporations is a problem. That plus stiff penalties for executives or individuals using facial recognition without consent should put a stop to it pretty quickly.
hamdingersMar 19, 2026
People find their ring cameras too useful, businesses love cloud based security camera systems, facial recognition and cloud backup are expected features of every phone's photo app, courts consider recording integral to first amendment expression.

These are some big rocks you'll need to move, otherwise your amendment won't be worth the paper it's written on. Just saying "you can collect all the data, but don't use it for surveillance" doesn't mean much.

I have no solutions, feels like we missed the boat if there ever was an opportunity to prevent it in the first place. We live in public now.

rolandogMar 19, 2026
Not sure if I agree that the only solution is to give up now; we need sensible people that know how the technology works in power and that are not beholden to serve big corporations, but rather the average person. We need less populist and long-drawn campaigns. We need less politicizing. And we need all of that yesterday.
conceptionMar 19, 2026
You can have a ring camera- “just”make it illegal to share/sell the data from it. Have it be an audit item.
eesmithMar 19, 2026
I don't think "courts consider recording integral to first amendment expression" is fully correct.

Otherwise there could not be states with two-party/all-party consent requirements for making an recording.

I think requiring all-party consent for facial recognition would not have 1st amendment issues.

Implementation details and effectiveness are, of course, very different issues.

coldteaMar 19, 2026
>People find their ring cameras too useful, businesses love cloud based security camera systems, facial recognition and cloud backup are expected features of every phone's photo app, courts consider recording integral to first amendment expression.

As long as the recordings aren't centrally stored and sold in bulk, and sold to brokers and governments, that would still be ok.

bonesssMar 19, 2026
> The only way to meaningfully defeat surveillance technology is to make a constitutional amendment that limits its use privately and publicly

So, contextually, a constitutional amendment to force private and public use of Juggalo Makeup?

It’s extreme, but bold change requires bold steps.

beau_gMar 19, 2026
It would be interesting to first create a taxonomy of juggalo face paint patterns a la aruco markers/April tags, then see if a sufficiently large crowd of juggalos could be used to calibrate cameras
nailerMar 19, 2026
> a sufficiently large crowd of juggalos

Some kind of gathering of the Juggalos?

wr639Mar 19, 2026
So maybe they may be smarter then they get credited for being. Probably not. But now anyone feeling uncomfortable about facial recognition tech now know what they can do to combat it if they chose. One question. Can you get thru the airport and onto a plan wearing the makeup?
general_revealMar 19, 2026
Fucking magnets and shit, how do they even work?
deltoidmaximusMar 19, 2026
In Fall; or, Dodge in Hell by Neal Stephenson one of the characters happens by a group of young women wearing devices that project constantly changing colored light patterns onto their faces to prevent facial recognition tracking. It's barely even mentioned in the book but I wondered how viable that was of an idea. The character's only thought on the devices IIRC was that most people only occasionally wore them.
nervousvarunMar 19, 2026
As with most things cyberpunk, Gibson also did this masterfully w/ the Panther Moderns, specifically Lupus Yonderboy. One of my favorite parts of Neuromancer is when Lupus has his interaction with Armitage and says (from the link below) "Lupus didn't bother to count it, being sure that 'Mr. Who' paid well to remain so, and not be a 'Mr. Name', which Armitage received as a threat."

Gibson (and later Stephenson) were prescient enough to realize that anonymity would be a commodity in the near future.

https://williamgibson.fandom.com/wiki/Lupus_Yonderboy

Really excited to see what Apple does with these guys in the upcoming adaptation.

almostkindatechMar 19, 2026
Gibson also had the 'ugly t-shirt' in Zero History, designed to mess with facial recognition https://www.wired.com/story/facial-recognition-t-shirt-block...
dmitrygrMar 19, 2026
It would work until algorithms were adjusted to it, which would happen as soon as significant number of people started doing it. Colors are defeated by desaturating, which is no issue since most face recognition algos run on greyscale data anyways. Blotches of bright and dark are defeated, for example, by a high-pass filter (eg: edge detection) on the brightness data to filter out large blotches but keep small detail
dvinciyuri89Mar 19, 2026
well written but i disagree with the conclusion. the data supports multiple interpretations
mixmastamykMar 19, 2026
Sounds like a lot of work. Are Groucho glasses effective, perhaps with obscured lenses?
tinfoilhatterMar 19, 2026
Remember kids - don't pick up any currency lying on the ground at an ICP concert. It most likely has poop on it.
PaulHouleMar 19, 2026
... reminds me of the time I was in Quebec and there was a Montréal Canadiens game near my hotel and there was a fan taking up most of the elevator because he was dressed up like a player, mask and all!
FrustratedMonkyMar 19, 2026
With facial recognition camaras everywhere.

Might be time become a juggalo.

stotemoatMar 19, 2026
Whoop whoop!